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	<title>Comments on: Posting local civic records online</title>
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	<link>http://matth.org/2008/11/02/posting-local-civic-records-online/</link>
	<description>I’m Matt Hampel, a digital developer and civic information hacker.</description>
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		<title>By: Edward Vielmetti</title>
		<link>http://matth.org/2008/11/02/posting-local-civic-records-online/comment-page-1/#comment-514</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Vielmetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Dec 2008 17:38:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Matt -

Could perhaps there be some organized and automated harvesting of PDFs from the city web site, so that you take that as a fixed point to start from and work around whatever it is?

I could imagine e.g. a derived feed from it that pulled all PDFs, dumped them all into Scribd or some other PDF holder for viewing, and ran OCR on each one in turn and posted some part of the text into another stream.

At this point I get a little bit of this through GovDelivery - which is better than what they had before, but just illustrates how bad what they had before was.

--

As for open formats for storing information, I&#039;m all for it, but I can understand organizational pushback against sharing more than just page images.  Do you really want to be able to get the same Excel worksheet that the bean-counters used to count beans, and do they want you to see the formulas and unstated assumptions they were using?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt -</p>
<p>Could perhaps there be some organized and automated harvesting of PDFs from the city web site, so that you take that as a fixed point to start from and work around whatever it is?</p>
<p>I could imagine e.g. a derived feed from it that pulled all PDFs, dumped them all into Scribd or some other PDF holder for viewing, and ran OCR on each one in turn and posted some part of the text into another stream.</p>
<p>At this point I get a little bit of this through GovDelivery &#8211; which is better than what they had before, but just illustrates how bad what they had before was.</p>
<p>&#8211;</p>
<p>As for open formats for storing information, I&#8217;m all for it, but I can understand organizational pushback against sharing more than just page images.  Do you really want to be able to get the same Excel worksheet that the bean-counters used to count beans, and do they want you to see the formulas and unstated assumptions they were using?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Hampel</title>
		<link>http://matth.org/2008/11/02/posting-local-civic-records-online/comment-page-1/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Hampel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 16:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes -- I am talking about comprehensive workflow, and you&#039;re right, that&#039;s not necessarily the best place to start. More on that soon.

I&#039;m also talking about open formats for storing information. Legistar is a for-profit corporation, and it offers proprietary software. When rates are raised or significant innovations were requested by cities, I don&#039;t think its commercial lock-in will be a benifit to cities. There are benifits, of course, and I&#039;ll touch on those soon.

I would also point out that there is significant opposition to Legistar from elected officials in Ann Arbor. They say that while it works quite well for City staff, it&#039;s not built for the processes of governing that they want to follow. See for example the May 2008 Cable Communications Commission for &lt;a href=&quot;http://www2.a2gov.org/Mypropertyinformation/Videos/CableCommissionMayVideo.asp&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;some good discussion&lt;/a.. Notes to follow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes &#8212; I am talking about comprehensive workflow, and you&#8217;re right, that&#8217;s not necessarily the best place to start. More on that soon.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also talking about open formats for storing information. Legistar is a for-profit corporation, and it offers proprietary software. When rates are raised or significant innovations were requested by cities, I don&#8217;t think its commercial lock-in will be a benifit to cities. There are benifits, of course, and I&#8217;ll touch on those soon.</p>
<p>I would also point out that there is significant opposition to Legistar from elected officials in Ann Arbor. They say that while it works quite well for City staff, it&#8217;s not built for the processes of governing that they want to follow. See for example the May 2008 Cable Communications Commission for <a href="http://www2.a2gov.org/Mypropertyinformation/Videos/CableCommissionMayVideo.asp" rel="nofollow">some good discussion</a.. Notes to follow.</a></p>
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		<title>By: FOI Fighter</title>
		<link>http://matth.org/2008/11/02/posting-local-civic-records-online/comment-page-1/#comment-471</link>
		<dc:creator>FOI Fighter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Check out what Milwaukee is doing:

http://milwaukee.legistar.com

I don&#039;t think that cattle-prods are needed if the storing of all documentation once is part of the process.  Cattle-prodding is needed if the storing of relative documents needs to occur twice or more in order for the information to be available via the internet.  You&#039;re talking about a comprehensive workflow management system for the legislative process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out what Milwaukee is doing:</p>
<p><a href="http://milwaukee.legistar.com" rel="nofollow">http://milwaukee.legistar.com</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that cattle-prods are needed if the storing of all documentation once is part of the process.  Cattle-prodding is needed if the storing of relative documents needs to occur twice or more in order for the information to be available via the internet.  You&#8217;re talking about a comprehensive workflow management system for the legislative process.</p>
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